It's always interesting to me to see programs that make it to the front page here, and the ensuing discussions about volume/hypertrophy/strength and the relations therein. Anyway, Serge Nubret was a French bodybuilder who was a contemporary of Arnold. Here's some good info on him, his methods, and his 'beginner/intermediate' training program. That is volume, yes you can do this program natty and still make great gains.

1. Serge Nubret Cause Of Death
2. Serge Nubret Workout Results
3. Serge Nubret Training Method

I love this style of training. Low rest, strict reps, concentrating every one on stimulating the muscle rather than just lifting the weights. You'll have to check your ego and do lower weights in order to complete, but your muscles will get absolutely demolished. It is my understanding from most recent studies that overall training volume is key for hypertrophy. Given that, I think that for most people (certainly true for myself) can get much more total volume in by doing more reps and sets at lower weights and shorter rest times then higher weight, lower reps/sets, longer rest times. Using your example you'd have to still be doing sets of 12 @ double the weight in order to equalize volume. Depending on the individual that might be possible but seems unlikely for most.

If you do 5x5 @ 250 you'd probably be doing more then 100lbs. And you underestimate the intensity that starts happening in the later sets given the low rest times.

I do find it interesting how many people poo poo this training style, but have never actually tried it themselves. It may not be the optimal type of workout for every individual I'll certainly grant you. Though that being said, Serge often did his bench with less then 175lbs from the man's own mouth.

And even Arnold commented later that Serge's pecs were better than his own. If you think this is Serge's actual program then I have a bridge to sell you.

Regardless, I was using those numbers to make a point about volume/intensity not to say you'd be lifting those exact amounts. For more realistic numbers, a maximal set of 10 is about 74% of your max per Mike T's RPE chart, which should roughly apply to most people. Extrapolating from that, a maximal set of 12 would be around 68%.

I know that for myself, if I'm working at sets at an 8 RPE, I usually can do 1 - 2 more at the same weight before needing to deload. To do 8 sets across? I'd probably need to go down at least into the 50%s.

For someone who is worse at higher reps, that number could go down to the 40%. I'm not saying there is no use working with low percentages or very high volume. But there is a reason that the vast majority of natural bodybuilders will stick with 60-80% range for almost all their work. I'll grant you that there are people for whom the standard training may not be optimal but that 60-80% number is backed by multiple studies, a shit ton of anecdotal experience, and lots and lots of results. Octopus box cracked download.

You won't know what's optimal for you though until you're a fairly advanced lifter who is keeping track of a shit ton of data, as opposed to randomly doing programs on the internet. Start with the basics, see what works, make small changes, and eventually you'll find something 'optimal' for a training block. This program is overkill though and far from optimal for almost anyone.

Knokkelezoute73 wrote: Bradley Joe Kelly wrote: Just do whatever feels best. Most people naturally feel more comfortable with a wider grip.

It will not affect muscular development or targeted muscles much either way. Alright, cheers. quoteBradley Joe Kelly wrote: Dont go heavy or deep and BTNP will feel great. Stay above ear level. /quote Yes, felt very good indeed, no strain at all. So far I'm experiencing exactly what you said, more stress on the targetted muscles than on the joints.

Glad I could help. Have fun training! BHappy, L-Dee isn't saying that the height of the bar is a problem. It's that the hooks are in the way of where his hands should go if he was to really grip the bar all the way at its edges. So he has to start with a narrower grip to unrack it.

And then shimmy his hands out. Then shimmy his hands back in so he can rack it.

This seems like a real pain in the ass come set 8. I have the same issue.

I'll attach a picture. I didn't place my hands aginst the collars. It seemed rediculously wide with almost no range of motion. It looks to be about 8 inches. Its not much better than this joke video someone made on youtube where his is actually holding the bar where the plates should be.

I went out almost two hands lengths from where i normally bench. I'm wide but a safe enough distance so I don't run the risk of pinching my hands when i rack the bar. DJS wrote: BHappy, L-Dee isn't saying that the height of the bar is a problem. It's that the hooks are in the way of where his hands should go if he was to really grip the bar all the way at its edges.

So he has to start with a narrower grip to unrack it. And then shimmy his hands out. Then shimmy his hands back in so he can rack it. This seems like a real pain in the ass come set 8. I have the same issue.

I'll attach a picture. I didn't place my hands aginst the collars. It seemed rediculously wide with almost no range of motion. It looks to be about 8 inches. Its not much better than this joke video someone made on youtube where his is actually holding the bar where the plates should be. I went out almost two hands lengths from where i normally bench. I'm wide but not a safe enough distance so I don't run the risk of pinching my hands when i rack the bar.

Knokkelezoute73 wrote: ground control wrote: Iron Dwarf wrote: strangemeadow wrote: It's been my impression that behind the neck pressing is a bad thing to do, unless you've always done it. I believe since we're using lighter weight and following good form, the chance for injury is lessened. Ego + heavy weights + loose form = potential disaster. Serge Nubret avoided that trifecta.

This has been my main overhead pressing lift for the past year and I have zero shoulder pain. Where do you stop the descent, ear level?

Keep perfect form, add weight slowwly and you'll be surprised how strong you can get at this lift. Ground control wrote: knokkelezoute73 wrote: ground control wrote: Iron Dwarf wrote: strangemeadow wrote: It's been my impression that behind the neck pressing is a bad thing to do, unless you've always done it. I believe since we're using lighter weight and following good form, the chance for injury is lessened.

Ego + heavy weights + loose form = potential disaster. Serge Nubret avoided that trifecta. This has been my main overhead pressing lift for the past year and I have zero shoulder pain. Where do you stop the descent, ear level?

Serge Nubret Cause Of Death

Keep perfect form, add weight slowwly and you'll be surprised how strong you can get at this lift. Well, I was going all the way down to the base of the neck, I suppose I have to play it safe and stop at ear level, then. 'All my life I have been training with 'tank-top' and short, so I could see my body when I was training, it exactly the way that a sculpter used to do his masterpeace. When you coved your body, you will have weaker bodypart.'

Serge Nubret Workout Results

Serge Nubret L-Dee wrote: BHappy wrote: Today i feel like yesterday flat bench press xtra wide worked my lats, am i alone? Yesterday abs 175. I've seen Serge's chest workout include pullovers (not in the T-Nation article though). Did you do those?

They work the lats too. Bradley, any reason you left out the pullovers in your article?

Yes I have a very good reason, my own technical error. I honestly have no idea why it was not in the workout template on the article, he did 6 sets of 12 using a dumbbell at the end of his chest routine, I used them every time and so did the people I taught it to.

Thanks so much for catching that, I will get it edited in ASAP. For those of you following the routine now and doing chest tomorrow, add in this to the chest routine. Dumbbell Pullover 6x 12 I am very sorry missed that. Also remember to keep the weight light, the rest low and pump going. A lot of people like to put their chin down on the chest and actually feel the movement.

A great movement anyone can do for the full 6 sets, no need to cut it back in fear of over training. Bradley Joe Kelly wrote: 'All my life I have been training with 'tank-top' and short, so I could see my body when I was training, it exactly the way that a sculpter used to do his masterpeace. When you coved your body, you will have weaker bodypart.'

Serge Nubret quoteL-Dee wrote: quoteBHappy wrote: Today i feel like yesterday flat bench press xtra wide worked my lats, am i alone? Yesterday abs 175./quote I've seen Serge's chest workout include pullovers (not in the T-Nation article though). Did you do those? They work the lats too.

Bradley, any reason you left out the pullovers in your article?/quote Yes I have a very good reason, my own technical error. I honestly have no idea why it was not in the workout template on the article, he did 6 sets of 12 using a dumbbell at the end of his chest routine, I used them every time and so did the people I taught it to. Thanks so much for catching that, I will get it edited in ASAP. For those of you following the routine now and doing chest tomorrow, add in this to the chest routine. Dumbbell Pullover 6x 12 I am very sorry missed that. Also remember to keep the weight light, the rest low and pump going.

A lot of people like to put their chin down on the chest and actually feel the movement. A great movement anyone can do for the full 6 sets, no need to cut it back in fear of over training. Also, someone in an article here mentioned that 'driving' with the thumbs would engage the chest more. I might be completely misquoting the author (maybe John Meadows) but there was a point about this little detail and I always made sure to incorporate it when doing pullovers. L-Dee wrote: Bradley Joe Kelly wrote: 'All my life I have been training with 'tank-top' and short, so I could see my body when I was training, it exactly the way that a sculpter used to do his masterpeace.

When you coved your body, you will have weaker bodypart.' Serge Nubret quoteL-Dee wrote: quoteBHappy wrote: Today i feel like yesterday flat bench press xtra wide worked my lats, am i alone? Yesterday abs 175./quote I've seen Serge's chest workout include pullovers (not in the T-Nation article though). Did you do those? They work the lats too. Bradley, any reason you left out the pullovers in your article?/quote Yes I have a very good reason, my own technical error.

I honestly have no idea why it was not in the workout template on the article, he did 6 sets of 12 using a dumbbell at the end of his chest routine, I used them every time and so did the people I taught it to. Thanks so much for catching that, I will get it edited in ASAP.

For those of you following the routine now and doing chest tomorrow, add in this to the chest routine. Dumbbell Pullover 6x 12 I am very sorry missed that. Also remember to keep the weight light, the rest low and pump going. A lot of people like to put their chin down on the chest and actually feel the movement. A great movement anyone can do for the full 6 sets, no need to cut it back in fear of over training. Also, I someone in an article here mentioned that 'driving' with the thumbs would engage the chest more.

Serge Nubret Training Method

I might be completely misquoting the author (maybe John Meadows) but I there was a point about this little detail and I always made sure to incorporate it when doing pullovers. I can see that, thanks for sharing. The chest is also responsible for internal rotation of the humerus and that makes you emphasize that. Also you hit the Pec Minor more in the bottom portion of the movement( the first 8 inches or until the arms are at a 45 degree angle) so a lot of bodybuilders find it useful to focus on that portion only and perform up to 15-20 reps.